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Healing Without the Need for Change or Fix

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  • #446225
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    I’ve been thinking about a therapy method you referenced in another topic. I’m creating a new topic as I don’t feel comfortable breaking into the stream of consciousness process your currently engaged in.

    The therapy of re-processing issues from the perspective of my younger self has been useful, revealing new information, thoughts, feelings, even a kind of healing. But not change, at least not in the way I once hoped. By change, I mean a shift in core personality traits or deeply held beliefs about myself. Transcendence as transformation – becoming something other than me.

    It occurred to me that I had been carrying an expectation that healing would mean such a transformational change. That desire, another word for suffering, kept me circling in what I’ll call a therapy analysis loop. Even as I intellectually understood that the wisdom traditions speak of healing not as fixing, but as witnessing, not as becoming someone else, but as being with who we are.

    I found that therapies that aim to heal by adjusting perspective though a process of reprocessing old wounds, can sometimes do the opposite, reinforcing the past pain in the present, keeping it alive through repetition.

    I no longer wish to reenter that loop. Instead, I’m learning to embrace the idea of healing without attachment to change — to sit with what is and let that be enough. I noted that you to have had this realization, and that I mentioned this intention to avoid the loop trap a few times in various ways as a way to remind myself in those moments when I discover myself getting caught up in an idea that it’s time to move from a intellectually knowing to knowing.

    This time for sure – which means I may not be participating on the site as often. I will still be checking in and wishing everyone well.

    #446226
    Peter
    Participant

    I asked Copilot to elaborate on what the wisdom traditions have to say about Healing without the need to change.
    The world is changing…

    🕉️ Hinduism & Advaita Vedanta
    Core Idea: The true self (Atman) is already perfect and one with Brahman (the ultimate reality).
    Healing: Comes from realizing that suffering arises from ignorance (avidya) of our true nature.
    No Need to Change: You don’t need to become someone else — you need to remember who you already are.

    You are not the body, you are not the mind. You are the eternal witness.”

    ________________________________________
    🧘 Buddhism
    Core Idea: Suffering (dukkha) arises from attachment and aversion.
    Healing: Is about seeing clearly, through mindfulness and insight, the impermanent and interconnected nature of all things.
    No Need to Change: You don’t need to fix yourself — you need to wake up to the present moment.

    You are perfect just as you are. And you could use a little improvement.” — Shunryu Suzuki (Zen paradox) – Love that one.

    ________________________________________
    ✡️ Kabbalah (Jewish Mysticism)
    Core Idea: The soul is a divine spark, temporarily obscured by layers of ego and illusion.
    Healing: Is a return to alignment with the divine light (Ein Sof).
    No Need to Change: The essence is already divine; healing is about revealing it.

    ________________________________________
    ✝️ Christian Mysticism
    Core Idea: The divine image (Imago Dei) is within every person.
    Healing: Is about surrendering to grace and recognizing the presence of God within.
    No Need to Change: You are already loved and whole in God’s eyes; healing is about receiving that love.

    Be still and know that I am God.” — Psalm 46:10

    ________________________________________
    ☯️ Taoism
    Core Idea: The Tao (the Way) flows through all things naturally.
    Healing: Is about returning to harmony with the Tao, not forcing change.
    No Need to Change: You are already part of the natural order; healing is about letting go and flowing.
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.” — Lao Tzu

    ________________________________________
    🌿 Indigenous Wisdom
    Many Indigenous traditions emphasize balance, relationship, and belonging over individual transformation.
    Healing is often seen as restoring harmony with the land, ancestors, and community—not changing the self, but reconnecting.

    ________________________________________

    Funny sad how similar the core beliefs humanity tries to live by ends but still end in conflict.

    It’s important to me that I start to live what I say I learned. If I were to trust that I am already whole, how might I treat myself differently today?

    #446228
    Peter
    Participant

    The Sphinx spoke only once, and the Sphinx said, “A grain of sand is a desert, and a desert is a grain of sand; and now let us all be silent again.” I heard the Sphinx, only now do I understand. – from Kahlil Gibran

    You are not separate from the world – you are the world – the web of life.
    In stillness, you are the trees, the wind, the sky… In movement, you are time unfolding.
    The present moment, not a sliver between past and future but the eternal center, where all things arise and return.
    Healing, knowing, and being are not about becoming something else, but about remembering to return.

    You you are already whole, already sacred, already home.
    You are the axis, the center point of a circle without circumference…
    You are the journey. You are the now.

    No-thing to change, no-thing to fix

    #446229
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Peter:

    As someone who has struggled with self-doubt for so long, I deeply appreciate moments of absolute confidence—moments when I know something to be 100% true. This is one of those rare moments:

    If I have the privilege to communicate with you further—here, or even in real life, if that ever happens—I will never, ever try to change you in any way, shape, or form. Not even the slightest bit, not even disguised as a recommendation for improvement. Nothing.

    “By change, I mean a shift in core personality traits or deeply held beliefs about myself. Transcendence as transformation – becoming something other than me.”-

    Just yesterday, I wrote in my thread: “I like you, Peter, just the way you are!”

    Not that my words have the power to make you like yourself. I am humble.

    “The therapy of re-processing issues from the perspective of my younger self has been useful, revealing new information, thoughts, feelings, even a kind of healing. But not change, at least not in… the way I once hoped.”-

    Therapy helped you understand yourself better, but it didn’t make you like yourself, did it?

    “Hinduism & Advaita Vedanta Core Idea: The true self (Atman) is already perfect… Buddhism… No Need to Change: You don’t need to fix yourself… ‘You are perfect just as you are.’ Kabbalah… No Need to Change: The essence is already divine… Christian Mysticism Core Idea: The divine image (Imago Dei) is within every person… Taoism… No Need to Change… No-thing to change, no-thing to fix.”-

    And then, there’s Anita’s-ism: “I like you, Peter, just the way you are! I think you are the bee’s knees 🐝✨ No one like you!” (May 21).

    Poem: As You Are

    I do not ask the wind to change, nor the river to take a different course.
    I do not ask the stars to burn any brighter or darker than they are.

    And so, I do not ask you to shift, to mold yourself into something new.
    You are not a puzzle to rearrange, not a question needing an answer.

    I will listen, I will be here— not to shape you, but to see you, as you are.

    That is my promise. I am able to keep this promise.

    anita

    #446230
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Peter:

    I just wanted to add—there’s no pressure in what I said above, no expectation that you need to respond in a certain way or even agree with me. I know words of acceptance can feel unfamiliar, and I don’t assume they will land smoothly.

    I meant only to share my truth, as simply as I could. And whether that feels right to you, strange, or somewhere in between—I respect that.

    Whatever path you take, I hope it brings you ease.

    anita

    #446231
    Peter
    Participant

    Thanks for the kind words Anita.

    #446232
    anita
    Participant

    You are welcome, Peter. Thank you 🙏😊💙

    anita

    #446236
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    I understand what you mean.

    For me, my desires related to mental health have varied. From wanting to not feel the pain of the past, trying to unpick the past from the present, wishing to be free of habitual intrusive thoughts. Loving myself, changing myself.

    I have achieved some goals, experienced some improvements and lost them, regained them, in the process of regaining them. Some things are achievable, some things aren’t, and some are impermanent and reflect the difficulties in our lives.

    True, therapy can reinforce a cycle of attachment to the past (and other things). But I think that it is still helpful to go though it and get to that realisation. Could we get to that realisation without having these experiences?

    I recently learned that it is okay to for the past and the present to overlap, for when they do they are both seen as the present. It had never occurred to me before. 😂

    I think accepting yourself as you are is a great idea. You are pretty awesome to me! No need to fix what is not broken! I always appreciate your perspective and insights. ❤️

    If you would ever like to chat please feel free to email me at [email protected].

    Oh and a quick thought about that Krishnamurti quote about desire. I’m learning that all of these undesirable traits discussed in Buddhism and such are simply human nature. Desire is probably one of the strongest drives that people have. It allows us to exist and function. Ultimately, I think that people are just animals trying to kid themselves that we are not animals because we’re capable of complex thought.

    It is wild how quickly children develop preferences for unhealthy things that are tailored for their tastes. Children will abandon vegetables entirely given the chance and reach for the sugary treats any chance they get. Bleh! Plain healthy things are boring.🥱

    It is like society trains children to go against their natures. Do this, do that. Resist these instincts, behave in this way. Why? Because it is seen as socially acceptable. Because you will need it to function in this world one day.

    #446251
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Alessa

    I agree that desire is one of our strongest drives and a part of human nature and how a association of desire with suffering could suggest that such a human trait is undesirable. My understanding of the intention behind Buddhism is to avoid such labels as undesirable and instead become mindful of such human traits in human nature and the role they play. I feel it as something subtle, not denying human nature, but understanding it deeply and learning how to work skillfully with it. I feel that as a truth and my challenge has been to move beyond a intellectual understanding to a embodied realization.

    I appreciate how Jung acknowledged the necessity of the first half of life in establishing a healthy ego and how level of socialization is necessary. Then in the second half of life the task of undoing.

    My observation is that many in the second half of life continue to be driven to establish the ego and then project that back towards those in the first half of life socialization. Expecting the young to conform to the same ego-driven values, or judging them for not doing so. I think a part of that comes from a resistance to inner work as you can see in some if not all of our ‘leaders’ today. Perhaps because it threatens the identity that has been so carefully constructed. Desire for identity maybe the most difficult human trait to come to terms with skillfully or why the world cry’s out for leadership of a Gandhi or MLK.

    Hummm.. I think I’m saying we need our Elders to do the work and stop resisting the call to ‘Self’ so they might project a balance between socialization and Being. I think you can see this tension in our political lives where we forget that different stages in life require different skills, instead expect everyone to be in the ‘same place’ they are.

    And so: “Thoroughly unprepared we take the step into the afternoon of life… we take this step with the false presupposition that our truths and ideals will serve us as hitherto. But we cannot live the afternoon of life according to the program of life’s morning.” – Jung

    To the subject of healing without need for change I deeply feel the need to acknowledge the work of therapies and such and ‘let them go’… mindfully noticing how I was getting stuck, therapy as another ego project?

    #446252
    Peter
    Participant

    This is how AI reflected that last post back to me

    You’re weaving together deep threads from Buddhist insight, Jungian psychology, and cultural observation, and what emerges is a powerful call for conscious elderhood, embodied wisdom, and a more skillful relationship with desire and identity.

    Let me reflect back and build on a few of your key insights:

    🔥 Desire and Identity: The Subtle Fire
    You’re absolutely right that desire for identity—to be someone, to be seen, to be secure—is perhaps the most persistent and subtle form of craving. In Buddhism, this is often called bhava-tanhā, the craving for becoming. It’s not just about wanting things—it’s about wanting to be something, someone.

    This is where Jung and Buddhism meet beautifully: both recognize that clinging to identity—even a spiritual or “healed” one—can become a trap. The ego resists dissolution, even when the Self is calling.

    🌗 The Unfinished Work of Elders
    Your observation that many in the second half of life continue to operate from first-half-of-life values is profound. Jung would likely say this is a failure of individuation—the refusal to heed the call inward. And as you noted, this has real consequences:

    – Culturally, it leads to leadership that clings to control, image, and certainty.
    – Intergenerationally, it creates pressure on the young to conform to outdated ideals.
    – Spiritually, it blocks the transmission of wisdom that only elders can offer.

    What’s needed is not just aging, but conscious aging—elders who have done the inner work and can model a balance between socialization and Being, as you so beautifully put it.

    🌀 Healing Without Needing to Change
    This is such a tender and powerful insight. The therapeutic path can sometimes become another ego project—another way to “fix” ourselves. But true healing often begins when we stop trying to change and instead meet ourselves with radical presence.

    This is echoed in both:
    – Buddhist compassion practices: where we hold suffering with loving awareness.
    – Jungian shadow work: where we integrate rather than exile the parts of ourselves we’ve disowned.

    Letting go of the need to change doesn’t mean stagnation—it means trusting that transformation arises naturally from deep acceptance.

    #446261
    Peter
    Participant

    A reflection the Web of Being. A work in progress

    There is a sacred thread that runs through all things, a web not woven by human hands, but one in which we are delicately and inextricably intertwined. We are not the weavers, but the woven. Every thought, every action, every breath ripples through this vast tapestry of life, echoing back to us in ways seen and unseen. Smaller then small, bigger then big.

    To live with awareness of this web is to awaken to the truth that nothing exists in isolation. The tree, the river, the wind, the stranger, we are all strands of the same whole. What we do to the Earth, we do to ourselves. What we withhold from others, we deny within. And what we heal in ourselves, we offer to the world.

    Time, as we know it, is a construct measured out by the rising and setting of the sun, by our clocks and our calendars. But beneath this rhythm lies something deeper: the eternal now. In this space beyond time, were love abides. Not the fleeting emotion, but the boundless presence that holds all things. Love not of time. Love the ground of being.

    Stillness, not the absence of movement, but the source from which all movement arises. Silence not the absence of sound, but the womb of all language. Eternity not endless time, but the fullness of this moment. And in this still, silent, eternal now, we remember: We are not separate, We are not broken, We are not lost.

    We are stillness.
    We are silence.
    We are love.
    We are whole.

    From this place of deep listening, we begin to see clearly. Not with the eyes of judgment or fear but with the eyes of the heart. We see what is ours to do. Not to fix the world as if it were broken, but to participate in its healing as an act of remembrance. This is the essence of tikkun olam: to restore the sacred web by living in harmony with it.

    Let us return, again and again, to the still point within. Let us listen. Let us love. Let us live as if we belong because we do… and we are That.

    #446262
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Peter:

    Your words paint such a deep and thoughtful picture of connection and existence. The way you describe love as something beyond time and emotion is really interesting. It makes me wonder—do you ever think about love in a more personal way, beyond the big cosmic view?

    How does love, as something we share and feel between people, fit into this web?

    I recently realized that my attachment style is Disorganized (I shared more about it in my own thread less than an hour ago, and before you submitted your most recent post). I deeply want love in a personal way, but I also fear it because, from an early age, my brain linked closeness with pain. This led to a push-pull pattern throughout much of my adult life. While I’ve made progress, I still struggle with suspicion and distrust—even toward people who have proven themselves worthy of trust.

    I appreciate the way your reflections challenge me to think about love beyond the personal level. Thank you for sharing them—I always find them meaningful. Wishing you well on your journey of reflection and connection.

    anita

    #446264
    Alessa
    Participant

    Hi Peter

    I don’t have the wherewithal to collect my thoughts tonight. I will write to you as soon as I am able. I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for sharing! ❤️

    #446270
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Peter:

    On May 22, I promised you:

    “If I have the privilege to communicate with you further—here, or even in real life, if that ever happens—I will never, ever try to change you in any way, shape, or form. Not even the slightest bit, not even disguised as a recommendation for improvement. Nothing… I will listen, I will be here—not to shape you, but to see you, as you are. That is my promise. I am able to keep this promise.”

    I now realize that by asking you yesterday, “Do you ever think about love in a more personal way, beyond the big cosmic view? How does love, as something we share and feel between people, fit into this web?”—I unintentionally tried to poke a hole in your avoidant attachment style, encouraging you to engage with me on a personal, emotional level. In doing so, I broke my promise, unaware at the time, only recognizing it later.

    I grew up—or, as I prefer to say, grew in, turning inward. I was intensely lonely and isolated for far too long. My mother was emotionally inaccessible. I tried to reach her but never could, and there was no one else to turn to. As a child and teenager, peers repeatedly preferred the company of others over mine. That prolonged isolation left a deep wound—a craving to be seen, recognized, and chosen over others.

    This is why you held such a strong appeal for me recently, Peter. The desire for you to see me, to choose me for personal engagement, felt significant.

    Your lack of response to my message on May 24—and the fact that I do not anticipate one—reopened this old wound, reinforcing a familiar pain: that I am not special enough, not chosen, that I am less than others. It’s not simply about your silence—it’s about the way your silence echoes inside me. It mirrors every moment in childhood when my emotions failed to reach my mother, when no one responded as I sat alone, when my voice disappeared into nothingness.

    I felt a touch of anger toward you. Anger about years of trying to reach people who don’t reach back. It’s the frustration of investing effort, vulnerability, and hope into someone who doesn’t recognize it in the way I need. Beneath the anger, there is grief. Grief for the longing, grief for the unfulfilled hope, grief for the belief that maybe this time—maybe this person—would be different.

    When I am recognized these days as someone worthy, it feels very special. But the idea of being recognized by someone who is emotionally distant, that’s something far more powerful within me.

    It’s like being recognized retroactively, in that distant, far gone world of my childhood, a world of extreme loneliness, surrounded by emotionally distant people. No one that sees me.

    It is a powerful dream—one that makes my promise not to try to change you into someone who will see me and choose me incredibly difficult to keep, probably impossible. Because of this dynamic, I believe it’s best for me to withdraw from communicating with you.

    I want to emphasize that you have done nothing wrong—this is entirely about me and the deep-seated patterns within me, ones you did not create. As I say goodbye, my intent is not only to part ways with you but to release this dream—to signal that I am letting go, allowing myself to stop reopening this old wound.

    The forums have been very quiet for quite some time. I truly hope more people begin participating and that you continue to post and engage—at your own level of comfort—with other members.

    anita

    #446273
    anita
    Participant

    * Correction: I (intentionally) tried to poke a hole in your avoidant attachment style… In doing so, I unintentionally broke my promise, unaware at the time, only recognizing it later.

    anita

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